‘The Last of Us’ director on Ellie and Dina’s evolving relationship

This story contains spoilers for “Day One,” Episode 4 of “The Last of Us” Season 2.

One of the first places Ellie and Dina explore when they reach Seattle is Capitol Hill.

“What’s up with all the rainbows,” asks Dina, played by Isabela Merced, as the pair make their way through a desolate neighborhood decorated with tattered LGBTQ+ Pride flags on horseback.

“I don’t know, maybe they were all optimists,” responds Bella Ramsey’s Ellie as they pass by a mural of a rainbow heart.

It’s an early tease of how Ellie and Dina’s relationship will progress in Sunday’s episode of “The Last of Us.” The two of them have been dancing around each other — physically and emotionally — since sharing a kiss in the first episode that has constantly been played off as drunken antics. (Despite some viewers believing they were protesting a bit too much for it to not have meant anything.)

But after surviving harrowing encounters with an armed militia and a horde of infected — and revealing some personal secrets — the couple finally gets together and consummates their romance in “Day One,” the fourth episode of the HBO post-apocalyptic drama’s second season.

“We wanted the audience to be very worried at the beginning of that scene, right up until the kiss,” says Kate Herron, the episode’s director, during a recent video call. Before said kiss, Dina is holding Ellie at gunpoint, convinced she will have to kill her not-quite-girlfriend after being bitten by a fungal zombie. And while Herron wondered if audiences would be angry about all the changes around Ellie and Dina’s relationship from the game, “I love that [showrunner] Craig [Mazin] moved this [moment] to later in the series. I think it’s more impactful and more surprising because not everyone watching will know [they’re together] in the game,” she says.

Herron describes herself as “a massive fan” of “The Last of Us” games, which she played back-to-back after buying a PlayStation console during the COVID-19 lockdowns.

“It just blew my mind in terms of what a video game could be in terms of storytelling [and] how it commented on empathy,” she says. “I think it’s one of the best stories about empathy ever made. I was obsessed with it.”

The British filmmaker is no stranger to massive franchises. She’s familiar with bringing moments that recognize queer characters of these popular shows onscreen in different ways. Herron was the director and executive producer on Marvel Studios series “Loki” when the eponymous god of mischief confirmed his bisexuality during a conversation with Sylvie. She also co-wrote a 2024 episode British sci-fi staple “Doctor Who,” in which the show’s titular Time Lord falls in love with a bounty hunter.

“It’s a massive privilege to get to tell these stories,” says Herron. “It’s not lost on me that in general mainstream pop culture, we don’t see many stories like this. So there is definitely a sense of responsibility, but also massive gratefulness, in getting to tell these stories.”

While she had no clue which episode she would be directing when she landed “The Last of Us” job, she suspects how much she talked to co-creators Neil Druckmann and Mazin about Ellie and Dina contributed to the assignment.

“I didn’t ask for this episode, it was given to me,” says the queer filmmaker. “But I was so excited when I read it. The story was very meaningful, and I knew if it was meaningful for me, it would have to be meaningful for lots of other people.”

“ ‘The Last of Us’ story and the world is very harrowing,” she adds. “That’s why we really loved this episode because at least for this one hour, we get to see Ellie and Dina happy together.”

Herron, in a conversation edited for length and clarity, discusses Ellie and Dina’s relationship, filming the “Take on Me” scene and getting to tackle horror.

What were your thoughts on how Ellie and Dina‘s relationship had been progressing over the course of the season so far?

I haven’t been in an apocalypse like they have, but I found the situation very relatable. Is this person into me? Are they not into me? Are they queer? Are they not queer? Me and a lot of my friends have had similar experiences to this. But the thing I always came back to, beyond my own experience and what connected to me, is making sure it felt authentic and just making sure their love story felt earned. We wanted that moment in the theater to feel like a big moment. For me, it was just making sure to keep up the flirtation, but also the questioning around is it going to go in that direction, or is it not going to go in that direction. I think a lot of the time it can be like that when you’re first falling in love with someone and I was always trying to emotionally track it across the story.

Dina (Isabela Merced) watches as Ellie plays a guitar in “The Last of Us.”

(Liane Hentscher / HBO)

I appreciate that even in a scary mushroom zombie apocalypse, young people still get to experience the queer rite of passage of questioning what kind of feelings you have for a friend.

I think that’s what’s so important in a good genre story anyway. If you take everything away from a good genre story, what is it really about? I was always thinking about that with the episode. Yes, they’re in this terrible situation and thrust into this kind of revenge mission, essentially, on Ellie’s part. But I always wanted to make sure that the love story was about these two young people realizing, “Oh, actually, I think I’m in love with my friend” and that meaning something a bit deeper. The stories I love watching when they’re genre related are relatable stories embedded in those fantastical worlds. That’s the stuff that really hooks me in.

Their relationship plays out differently on the show than in the game.

That’s the joy with the TV episode of it all. Getting to focus on their relationship here, we really get to take our time so it does feel really earned by the time they kiss in the theater. Obviously, they’ve kissed before and it was very romantic and it was lovely, but then you are thrown into thinking maybe Dina was just having fun or that it didn’t mean anything. I loved that in this one you see, no, it kind of meant everything. Look, I’m queer. I didn’t ask for this episode. It was given to me. But I was so excited when I read it. The story was very meaningful, and I knew that if it was meaningful for me, it would have to be meaningful for lots of other people.

Capitol Hill is a location from the game, but it was fun to see Ellie and Dina exploring the neighborhood and not recognizing symbols of an LGBTQ+ community.

To us, obviously, the symbolism of the rainbow flag, it means something very specific. But to these two young people in the apocalypse, they don’t necessarily know what that meant and what Seattle meant. And that was the knowing nod and fun from us in making this story. Yes, we’re going to give you a relatable, emotional story, but just a reminder that these are not characters that are in our current day. I love that they’re talking about that because it sets you up for where our story is going to take you. But you’re still wondering, is that all we’re going to talk about in relation to that or is it actually building up to something that’s more meaningful? Hopefully by the later scene, when she’s serenading her, you’re like, “Oh, OK, maybe this is gonna be romantic.”

Ellie (Bella Ramsey) and Dina (Isabela Merced) in “The Last of Us.”

(HBO)

Since you mention the serenading, can you talk a little bit about your approach to the “Take on Me” scene?

Because the scripts are so brilliantly written, it was about honoring the script. And I love that moment in the game. We did a lot of different takes of it — we got some where she was listening to it, and she was really into the song. Some where it was a little bit more tentative from Ellie. I remember we did a take where I spoke to Bella and was like, “Let’s do one where you just make no eye contact.” Obviously we don’t use that take for the entire scene, but it’s interesting to have levels and see what felt best to us. It starts off as a private moment, Ellie’s playing guitar and then is interrupted. But I just love that scene because when I watch it, I can see Dina is in love with Ellie. This is not just a crush or being drunk, this is a real emotional thing for them both.

It really important to remind the audience that these are young people, and despite everything, they still can find romance in this backdrop of horror. That was always the balancing act for us, making sure that the danger never felt too far away, but also giving enough space for them to fall in love.

It’s also a nice reminder that despite everything, creativity and music can endure.

Since the dawn of time, when you see someone you like, you’re going to find a way to impress them. Whether that’s drawing or music or — I know I wrote fanfics for people to try and impress them. When you see someone who has a really good creative skill and they’re doing it really well, what is not attractive about that?

I asked if we could get a caterpillar for the scene and I was so thrilled when Craig said yes. Because I remember in the game, it’s that beautiful backdrop behind Ellie, and I wanted to have this overgrown garden sense to it, like the Earth taking back over, which is across all the designs of “The Last of Us.” But I wanted them to feel for just a moment in their own private space and isolated, because I think they had to be for it to have that moment of connectivity, and for it to be as impactful as it is when she sings to her.

It’s a big contrast to their moment later in the theater.

I loved how it played out because you’re coming out of this big adrenaline ride of going through the subway with them and you’re kind of in the same space with them. You also know that Dina does not know that Ellie is immune, and I think that’s such a crucial thing. They go into the theater, and you have this breath of relief, and then the adrenaline is right back up again because now Ellie could be in serious danger. And it’s even worse, because you’re thinking that can’t be what happens, she can’t get killed by Dina. I remember talking to Bella about it. We wanted people to feel complete tension up to the point they kissed. That was really important.

For Dina, clearly, there’s something deeper than friendship going on there, which we established with “Take On Me.” But so much happens between that point and the theater that you are a little bit on the fence about whether these two characters are going to get together. So it was making sure that the tension and the drama felt high enough so the kiss was like a relief, but also enough of a surprise.

Ellie (Bella Ramsey) and Dina (Isabela Merced) trying to escape a militia and a horde of infected in “The Last of Us.”

(Liane Hentscher / HBO)

We also get Dina’s coming out story afterwards.

I came out in my 30s, so I found that speech very relatable and beautiful. Some people don’t come out until much, much later in life and I think the more we hear these stories, the better. I know for me, it would have made me feel brave if I’d seen a character who I thought was kick ass on TV and saw “Oh, she feels like I feel.”

I remember when I first came out, I worked on the show “Sex Education,” and that definitely helped me work out what was going on with me. Because I was getting to tell these stories, and I thought, “these feel sort of connected to me, but I have to work out why.” When I was growing up, I didn’t get stories like this very often. I do think if I’d seen something like that, I would have just felt less alone. For me, that’s so important as a director. If I can tell stories that help people feel a little bit less alone, why would I not do that?

And in this story, it’s not like this utopia where they kiss in the first episode and everyone thinks it’s great. They do meet someone who’s being homophobic. He does apologize, but still. It’s not creating a fantasy world. It still shows that people have these obstacles. But it’s even more meaningful for me because you imagine this world they’re living in and they can still find some kind of joy in that and love. That always is going to give me hope, even though “The Last of Us” story and the world is very harrowing. That’s why we really loved this episode. Because at least for this one hour, we get to see Ellie and Dina happy together.

One of my favorite moments is after Dina tells Ellie she’s pregnant, Ellie says, “I’m going to be a dad.”

That’s how it was in the script and I just love it. I love that Ellie finds out and then immediately is “I’m all in.” I just found it so moving. A lot’s happened to them both. They needed just an hour to sit down and be still for a second and catch up. But that’s exactly how Craig wrote it. I love that line. It’s so sweet.

You’ve also been involved in other big queer moments in big franchises, like “Loki” and “Doctor Who.”

For me, it’s just a massive privilege to be honest. It’s been different with everything I’ve worked on. “Loki” was already a love story, and I asked when I was in my interview if we were going to acknowledge Loki’s sexuality in any way. They wanted to, so then that became part of the conversation as we worked on scripts. It’s just a moment in “Loki.” Whereas with “Doctor Who,” I was just pitching ideas to [showrunner] Russell [T Davies], because he asked if I would like to come write an episode. Because me and Russell spoke to each other initially about queer representation and queer romance in TV, I asked to do a story like that because this is how we’d become friends. And I love romance. With “Last of Us,” I didn’t know that I was going to get this script. I think I did talk a lot about Ellie and Dina, so they probably were like “give her Episode 4.” But it’s a massive privilege to get to tell these stories.

Jeffrey Wright reprises his video game role as Isaac in “The Last of Us” series.

(Liane Hentscher / HBO)

What were the moments that excited you when you read the script for this episode?

The love story. “Take on Me.” But the other bit I was excited about was the subway because I love horror. I wanted to really scare people. Like the train carriage, the first one they land in is in a weird angle and I remember hanging around in that surrounded by all these skeletons and I was so happy. I just feel like a lot of women, particularly in TV, will go meet for stuff and they won’t give you those episodes.

I wanted to capture how I felt when I was playing the game. Our story is slightly different but just that feeling of panic. I remember when I was planning it, I asked Craig if I could add a jump scare with a clicker. He said, “Sure.” When I was building out that with a previs artist, we added the jump scare, and Craig was really into it. I know that’s not all that makes a horror piece. It’s so much about tension and lots of other things, but getting to dip my toe into that genre, I was thrilled.

Something that was really fun that wasn’t planned was we didn’t know we’d have Josh [Peck] in the opening. Josh was someone that came up in our conversations, and he read for the role. He was fantastic and the best person. But I was also excited to get to do like a Drew Barrymore in “Scream” by having him in the opening. And what an interesting opening with Jeffrey Wright as well. Jeffrey, for me, is one of the best actors working. What we were filming together was very heavy, but it was such a joy to work with him on those scenes and be a part of that. This isn’t his first time in “The Last of Us” world. It felt like a massive privilege to be a part of launching Isaac on TV, so to speak.